Are you a Carrot, Egg or Coffee

[debe]

I recieved this e-mail today and well all I can say isWOW

>Carrot, Egg, Coffee ...
>You will never look at a cup of coffee the same way again.
>A young woman went to her mother and told her about her life and how
>things were so hard for her. She did not know how she was going to make
>it and wanted to give up. She was tired of fighting and struggling. It
>seemed as one problem was solved, a new one arose.
>Her mother took her to the kitchen. She filled three pots with water
>and placed each on a high fire. Soon the pots came to boil.
>In the first she placed carrots, in the second she placed eggs, and in
>the last she placed ground coffee beans. She let them sit and boil,
>without saying a word.
>In about twenty minutes she turned off the burners. She fished the
>carrots out and placed them in a bowl. She pulled the eggs out and
>placed them in a bowl. Then she ladled the coffee out and placed it in a bowl.
>Turning to her daughter, she asked, "Tell me what you see."
>"Carrots, eggs, and coffee," she replied.
>Her mother brought her closer and asked her to feel the carrots. She
>did and felt they were soft.
>The mother then asked the daughter to take an egg and break it. After
>pulling off the shell, she observed the hard boiled egg.
>Finally, the mother asked the daughter to sip the coffee. The daughter
>smiled as she tasted its rich aroma.
>The daughter then asked, "What does it mean?"
>Her mother explained that each of these objects had faced the same
>adversity -- boiling water. Each reacted differently.
>The carrot went in strong, hard and relenting. However, after being
>subjected to the boiling water, it softened and became weak.
>The egg had been fragile. Its thin outer shell had protected its liquid
>interior, but after sitting through the boiling water, its inside
>became hardened.
>The ground coffee beans were unique, however. After they were in the
>boiling water, they had changed the water.
>"Which are you?" she asked her daughter. "When adversity knocks on your
>door, how do you respond? Are you a carrot, an egg or a coffee bean?"
>Think of this: Which am I?
>Am I the carrot that seems strong, but with pain and adversity do I
>wilt and become soft and lose my strength?
>Am I the egg that starts with a malleable heart, but changes with the
>heat? Did I have a fluid spirit, but after a death, a breakup, a
>financial hardship or some other trial, have I become hardened and
>stiff? Does my shell look the same, but on the inside am I bitter and
>tough with a stiff spirit and hardened heart?
>Or am I like the coffee bean? The bean actually changes the hot water,
>the very circumstance that brings the pain. When the water gets hot, it
>releases the fragrance and flavor.
>If you are like the bean, when things are at their worst, you get
>better and change the situation around you. When the hour is the
>darkest and trials are their greatest, do you elevate yourself to another level?
>How do you handle adversity?
>Are you a carrot, an egg or a coffee bean?
>May you have enough happiness to make you sweet, enough trials to make
>you strong, enough sorrow to keep you human and enough hope to make you happy.

[relativestranger]

ha nice story.

Unfortunately i believe i am more likely to be the egg, although i still have time to change right

too many people i know are carrot s and just let others dictate what they do

i am not sure that what coffee does is so great however as it contains an element of joining the thing that is harmful and making it stronger, and more energetic...if looked at in a different way

[solitarysoul]

relativestranger said:

ha nice story.

Unfortunately i believe i am more likely to be the egg, although i still have time to change right

too many people i know are carrot s and just let others dictate what they do

i am not sure that what coffee does is so great however as it contains an element of joining the thing that is harmful and making it stronger, and more energetic...if looked at in a different way

You don't know that you have time, never gamble on that, because we never know when Jesus will be back. He really could return before you finish reading this even. He said not to put off til tomorrow what you can do today. The fact that we are all sinners is no excuse to say we can get away with things.

The coffee example is the best because it describes how God uses our trials to refine us into being a better person if we put our trust in Him. This is biblical. I do hope you read the Bible. When we go through difficult times, it does not mean God does not love us. We should be rejoicing instead because we can have faith that God will take the situation and make good out of it.

[relativestranger]

ha we definitely come from different backgrounds.

I still feel the coffee seems to indicate making the bad thing stronger and giving it energy, rather then better as i wud prefer to drink hot water then coffee

I wasnt suggesting that i was happy being an egg, i was admitting fault. not just sitting here accepting it

i have read the bible, although never straight through as i get bogged down in the repeating constants, e.g the very start of the nt there is a lot of repeating to get certain points across.

i go with the feeling that dont get too down by the problems as as soon as something good happens you can follow it back and it probably wouldnt have happend if the bad things hadnt, who knows what is planned for them right?

[solitarysoul]

Yes but the thing is, the coffee example is what is the most biblical, so that is what we should be aiming to follow if we truly desire to be a child of God . And my backgrounds have nothing to do with that , it's not a matter of how we are raised, it's a matter of realizing what is biblical truth and what isn't. Admitting fault is good and we all should, but I was just stressing that admitting fault isn't enough, we have to really seek and desire to change to be more like Christ. Sometimes we wont understand certain teachings of the Bible until we adapt to making them a part of our lives, and then we'll understand why it is such a good thing.

[relativestranger]

see its saying stuff like that that proves that you were brought up in a different way, i was brought up cynical, and tbh i like being cynical, and you, by the sound of it werent

[solitarysoul]

The way I am today is very different from the way I was brought up, because when we are saved, it permanently and dramatically changes our life .

[relativestranger]

sorry, but bollocks, and saying that enphasises my point, are you arrogant enough to think that because i dont think like u i havent been 'saved' i hope not as that is really elitist and not christian thinking at all

and what is ssaved, baptised..tick, confirmed..tick, believe...might just be a tick

[solitarysoul]

Actually, being saved has a lot to do with the way we think, and I will quote the Bible in just a second here. But I did not once claim that you are not saved, that is not my place to comment on, and I wouldn't know even if it was. Only God can tell you if you are saved.

Being saved is not simply a matter of believing. Even Satan believes that God exists and that Jesus died for us. Satan had conversations with God in the Bible. So if simply believing in God and that Jesus died for us is what saves us, then even Satan would be saved. But we know this is not the case. To be saved is to undergo a permanent change in your life, every aspect of it, to become more like Christ. To life for Christ, to love Him and His teachings as our reason for living, and to make Him the very focus of our lives, changing and giving up whatever it takes to make that happen. Again, this is not my opinion, this is what Jesus taught.

Here is what the Bible says about being saved:

"You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;" - Ephesians 4:22

Ephesians 4:22 states that we first must "put off our old self", to choose to let go of our old self, to desire to become more like Christ, to learn what it is He taught (in the Bible) to become more like Him. It does not happen automatically by simply believing that He died for us and that what He taught was good and true. It is a choice to change our ways of acting, hence the word "put", a verb.


"to be made new in the attitude of your minds;" - Ephesians 4:23

In another version of the Bible, this verse literally says, "Let the Spirit change your way of thinking". Becomming like Christ does involve a change in the way we think. The word which "made new" was translated from is the Greek word 'ananēoō'. "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." - Romans 12:2. Again in this verse a form of the same word 'ananēoō' is found, which literally means "metamorphosis". Think about what the word metamorphosis means in science. It is used to describe a great change, like that of a caterpillar becoming a butterfly. The caterpillar does not simply believe that it is a better and renewed being by accepting the fact that it is to become a butterfly. Instead, the caterpillar "chooses" I guess you could say, to be renewed, by spinning a cacoon around itself where it undergoes the transformation process. When that caterpillar becomes a butterfly, it is an entirely changed being. It will never again be the same, and it has let go of its old ways, and taken on an entire new lifestyle, an entire new look, an entire new character if you will (keep in mind character and personality are not the same).

Similarly, we don't simply believe in God and accept Jesus and God's Word as truth ... that is a big part of it yes, but that is not all ... we choose to become like Christ, to give our lives over to Him, to do His will. It is then that the Holy Spirit works through us and changes us into a new person from the inside out. But that still isn't all. Take a look at the next verse still:


"and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. - Ephesians 4:24

"Put on" is from the Greek word 'enduō' which literally means "to sink into", or "to clothe". We make a change of lifestyle by making the committment and desire to become more like Christ. We change our habits from those of the world, to godly habits. We strive to become more like Christ and to develop His character. Again, character and personality are not the same thing. Your personality is what makes you unique, it is who you are, and God gave you that uniqueness Himself. But our character is the way we act, or the habits we make. Our personality can influence the way we act, but it is only source of influence, and changing our character does not change our personality. God wants us to be who He created us to be, yet while beoming more like His Son, by developing a Christ-like character ... a character of patience, unconditional love and forgiveness, honesty, faith, trust, etc.

[relativestranger]

ok, if that is true where is ghandi?

[solitarysoul]

First of all, only God knows where ghandi will spend eternity.

Second of all, if ghandi did not accept Jesus as His personal Lord and Savior then sadly he would not be in Heaven. You may be quick to say that that is hateful or unloving, but that is not true. Would God be a loving God if He was not just and perfect in His will, not fulfilling what we deserve? You wouldn't send ghandi to hell I'm sure if it was up to you. But we are men, we are prone to the world's deciet and sinful ways. Only God is complete and perfect. Ghandi may have been one of the greatest and most influential men in history, but that doesn't save him from hell. You can be a great person, bettering this world now, but that doesn't save you from hell. Life here is preperation for eternity. Notice what my signature says. "There is a way that seems right to man, that will lead to death." Just because it may be viewed great by man's standards, does not make it so.

Look at it from this perspective. Though Ghandi may have done great things for mankind, consider what this means if his religious beliefs are wrong and the Bible is true. This would mean that although Ghandi has done great things for mankind and has been so influential toward peace, as a result, millions of people would have followed him instead of Jesus, decieved into believing that his way is better. And while at first glance to some people it may seem like a better way to live this temporary life, the fact that Ghandi denied Jesus sadly puts him and millions of his followers in the exact same position as satan himself once was. Ok think about it this way, this may be a little more clearer. Say for example mankind has a horrible fate in the end as a result of our seperation from God and our turning to sin. Now Jesus comes into the picture to forgive us and offer us a way back to God, to escape that horrible fate. But now Ghandi, though his intentions were well of course, he denied Christ, he focused on this life, and denied that one way back to God. Now as a result, millions of people follow him instead of Christ, which decieves them.

The Bible warns about this in so many places. Though Ghandi's intentions were well and out of love for peace and happyness, he focused on the world, and therefore he was decieved. The Bible warns not to focus on worldly ways or the ways of other men, but on God and His Word. The Bible also says to watch our for false prophets. And what the Bible describes as false prophets are "people who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves" ... in other words, they may seem to be great by man's standards, but their focus is not on God.

Take a look at this quote from everystudent.com, it may help to clear things up a bit:

Most people find the idea of Christianity being the only way to heaven as repugnant. And I don't blame them. It sounds arrogant. Heck, some Christians ARE arrogant. But I think most of the time the turnoff people feel is a simple misunderstanding. When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life," he wasn't being boastful and saying, "I am the best. And I'm only going to let people into heaven who follow my way."

Rather, it was like saying, "There is only one way across the Grand Canyon. You can't jump across, walk across, or drive across. You have to take a helicopter." The nature of the problem means there is only one solution.

So if we go to Heaven or Hell based on how "good" we are in life, then what would have been the point of Jesus ever existing in the first place?

Whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell is not a matter of how good or bad we are in this life. It is not a matter of how well other men loved us and how well we benefited mankind. Nor is it a matter of God's "opinion". When we face Jesus we can't sweet talk Him into letting us into heaven anyway, trying to get Him to pity us by saying we didn't know any better. That just simply will not work. His very nature of justice and perfection, in love, does not permit Him to do such a thing. Look at the Grand Canyon analogy again. Let's say for example you had never been to the Grand Canyon and you didn't know a single thing about it. Let's be extreme and even say that you believed it would be possible to jump across it, or to at least find a bridge. So you deny the helicopter when someone tells you it is the only way across. But when you get to the edge of the Grand Canyon and notice that you are wrong, there simply is no excuse that will suffice. You can't bend the nature of existance in order for it to allow you to jump across the Grand Canyon because you didn't know any better. Similarly, when we face Jesus after death, we can't bend His nature of perfection and justice to sweet talk Him into letting us into Heaven anyway. It just doesn't work like that. So then the only way that one would then have an excuse is if there was in fact no way of knowing the truth. But there is a way of knowing. Going back to the analogy, when someone tells you the helicopter is the only way across, how would you figure out whether or not that is the truth? Just read about it, research it, find out what the Grand Canyon really is, what the nature of its existance is if you will, see if it does in fact say that the helicopter is the only way across, and then see if that source of information that makes these claims is in fact valid and truthful. Now back to real life ... how do you know Jesus is the only way? The Bible. It was given to us for us to read it, life by it, and trust it. The Bible itself even says to test and research it honestly, so that you will know it is truth. Therefore we have been told the one and only way, so there is no excuse for us if we deny it.

[relativestranger]

the rest of your post may have been the greatest argument ever but i cannot believe in a God that would send Ghandi to hell, there is no excuse, i dont believe my God is arrogant enough to need to be believed in, He knows he exists, others will find out

George W Bush has embraced God, does he deserve heaven more then mohatma Ghandi

[solitarysoul]

But the god you are describing is not the God the Bible describes. You say you believe in Jesus, yet, now you turn around and basically imply that you believe this and that, rather than what Jesus taught. While I'm not judging you for that, the point I'm trying to make is that if you believe in Jesus, then you believe in who He was, and what He said and taught. Jesus wasn't simply a great man teaching about love and forgiveness like Ghandi, Jesus said: "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. And no man comes to the Father but through Me" - (John 14:6, emphasis mine). That was His purpose behind all His teaching. For an example of this, say I became a world-known leader someday teaching about love and forgiveness. Would it make any sense at all, if someone one day after I was gone said they believe in me and who I was, and then went about the world carrying out terrorist attacks and living a life of hatred for mankind? (Keep in mind I am by no means at all saying you are hateful or anything, i am not comparing this to you lol, I am just making a more obvious analogy to prove a point.) Maybe if that person hated me and what I taught, but not if they loved me and what I taught, which is what the Bible means when it says "believing in Christ Jesus".

And like I said, truth is not a matter of opinion. If the Bible is true, we don't get to Heaven because we wanted to believe in a different god. Eternity is even more real than this world, and therefore life after death isn't a matter of what each of us want to believe ... it is a matter of whether or not we will accept the truth. Someone can completely misunderstand what the Bible is saying and want to believe in something else, and while that may be great and fine by our standards, that does not merit an eternal life for them by what they wanted to believe. When they die and face Jesus Christ, it no longer matters what they had or achieved in this life, all that matters is whether or not they accepted His sacrifice for us, believed in Him and the forgivenss of our sins, which is accompanied by a change in livestyle to a life of love and forgiveness, and repentance of sin, desiring to follow the Bible, because they love Jesus that much for forgiving them and allowing them that passage into Heaven, even though we do not deserve it. We get to Heaven if we believed in what the Bible says. I use to think the same way but the fact is I was very mistaken about a lot of things. God is not arrogant and hateful, He is loving and just. If you don't understand something about what God would do, that does not mean He does not exist, and that does not mean He isn't loving. I don't mean to be judging but if you have really researched this as much as you claim to have then I find it hard to believe that this is the conclusion you would come to.

See this is how you're misunderstanding the God of the Bible. NO ONE "deserves" Heaven, because to "deserve" Heaven you would have to be perfect. The only way into Heaven is not about "earning" it, it's about accepting the one and only way, the truth. Heaven is a place of perfection, and therefore nothing that is not perfect can enter it. And the only way to become perfect is if we accept Christ, because even though we continue to live imperfect lives right now, by faith in Christ's sacrifice, THAT is how we become perfect in Heaven, the ONLY way, because it is through faith in that sacrifice that God no longer sees the scarlet of our sins, but he sees us as if we are white as snow. You have to look at it from God's perspective, not by man's standards. See, Ghandi may have been a great person, and I'm sure God weeped greatly for him if he is in hell. But the truth remains that Ghandi still sinned because he was human, not perfect, and therefore because he sinned, there is no way he could go to Heaven without accepting Christ's sacrifice, the bridge from man back to God. When we are dead, we will not be judged by the standards of man.

Just like the Grand Canyon example ... you can't "earn" another way across the Grand Canyon. No matter what you do or what you believe, you can't "earn" or "deserve" yourself to be eligable to walk or drive across the Grand Canyon. Even if by our standards you do think there is something you could do to "earn" another way across it, you can't just will a bridge to suddenly exist when you get there because you believe it is. Belief in something does not make it true. Regardless of what you do or believe, the only way to get across the grand canyon would be by accepting the truth, accepting that gift, accepting the helicopter ride across. Similarly, we can't "earn" or "deserve" ourselves into Heaven. To suggest such a thing is to suggest that man is capable of becoming God. We are not perfect, and we never will be in this life. Notice that the Bible doesn't say you "get" to Heaven or "earn" Heaven, it says you "inherit" it. You can't take Heaven, you can't earn it. You can only accept it. It is a gift given freely out of love and mercy for us, and therefore if it is a gift given by someone (Jesus Christ), the ONLY way to inherit it is by accepting that gift, accepting the one and only way to get there.

It's not a matter of being arrogant, did you read the analogy? It's a matter of nature. The fact that the Grand Canyon can only be crossed by helicopter does not make God or bridgebuilders arrogant or unloving if you deny the helicopter and want to believe otherwise, and then walk up to the ledge and realize there's nothing you can do. It's the NATURE of the issue, not arrogance. You're still judging by man's standards. No matter how great of a person Ghandi may have been, you cannot "deserve" Heaven. No matter how great you are, you cannot "deserve" another way across the Grand Canyon. The purpose of the Bible, and the purpose of Jesus, is to let us know that we have been seperated from God, BECAUSE as a result of Adam and Eve's disobedience, the world has fallen, and all mankind is destined to live in a fallen, sinful, imperfect world, where no matter how hard we try, we are not perfect. If we could "deserve" or "earn" Heaven, we could will ourselves to no longer be seperated from God, because we could become perfect! (And if you deny me on that, you'd be claiming that God is not perfect. Don't think about it as a matter of what's right and wrong, because deceptions get in the way of that judgement of ours. Think about it as a matter of being eternal, perfect, sharing in God's glory) If someone denies the one way across, it doesn't matter how great they were, there's just nothing that can be done about it. You have read the Bible right? Remember what Jesus says about those who fall to hell? God doesn't hate them, He doesn't say "it serves you right", or "you didn't beleive what I wanted you too so I let you go there". No, the Bible says God MOURNS for those who fall to hell. He doesn't want them to go there! And that is WHY Jesus came, to bridge the gap between man and God, BUT, the only way across that bridge is by accepting Jesus's sacrifice, not because He's saying "you have to do it my way or else", but BECAUSE Jesus is the only way, BECAUSE He changed nature ... changed our fate ... by sacrificing Himself so that we may be saved. But, the thing is, how can we be saved and find that one bridge across the gap between man and God if we don't truly believe in our hearts that Jesus died for us and bridged that gap? You can't will another bridge to be there just because you want it to be, or because you don't understand how that one bridge can be the only way.

Now you could say if God was perfect He could stop people from falling to hell. But I say if God is perfect, He WOULDN'T stop people from falling to hell, because God is a just God. His own nature and will can't allow Him to let everyone into Heaven. God wants everyone to go to Heaven, the Bible says He weeps for those who do not ... even the most evil of men. But the fact that He weeps for them does not mean that He will let them in anyway. Though our intentions may be good, if we do not believe in the sacrifice that Jesus made, our conscience is telling God that we deny Him, even if our mind says otherwise. Because again, it is not a matter of opinion, it is not a matter of "this person loved me so I'll let them come in, but this person made me mad so i don't want him to come here", no, it is a matter of "there is only one bridge across the gap ... I want you to find that bridge to escape Satan's grasp on you, which is why I have given you the Bible and Christ, so that you may believe in the truth ... so, have you followed the narrow path to that one bridge?" If God simply just "let everyone in", He would not be a perfect God. He would be so sympathetic that He too, just like man, could be decieved. And if God Himself could be decieved, because of the fact deciet is from Satan, that would mean evil would overcome and conquer existance, even God.

[relativestranger]

"I AM the way, the truth, and the life. And no man comes to the Father but through Me"

this is an important sentance and is basically the corner stone of christian arrogance throughout the free world, and i say that with love and respect as a christian myself

surely the me in question as emphasised by yourself could mean, and this is a crazy thought, not by being jesus, but by following the THINGS TAHT HE PREACHED, so by following the THINGS THAT HE Preached, e.g love respect forgiveness, you are going through jesus

research a lines for me

"any promise made in good faith in his name and kept is glory to me, insofar any promise made and broken is glory unto him"

[solitarysoul]

huh?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but you won't find a single person well educated in this subject who comes to a different interpretation, it's obvious what Jesus was saying. He wasn't saying "do this or else, because I'm best", He was saying "there's only one way across and I want you to find it, so that's why I came here, to show you". That isn't arrogance. I don't know how much clearer I can make the point I've been trying to make, so I don't know if you're really just still not understanding it, or if you're just looking for something to disagree about

[relativestranger]

solitarysoul said:

huh?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but you won't find a single person well educated in this subject who comes to a different interpretation, it's obvious what Jesus was saying. He wasn't saying "do this or else, because I'm best", He was saying "there's only one way across and I want you to find it, so that's why I came here, to show you". That isn't arrogance. I don't know how much clearer I can make the point I've been trying to make, so I don't know if you're really just still not understanding it, or if you're just looking for something to disagree about

see the thing is i agree, he did come and say i want you to find the way across so i came to show you, however where we disagree is that you assume that that way means following the bible exactly, and believeing what it says literally, tbf if you model yourself on jesus you cant go far wrong, however if you have to believe that he is the son of god then frankly that is the arrogance, i will make my peace with you rbeliefs its up to you, and justify myself to God when the time comes, if i am wrong then i will take consequences, however if what i say is what i do then i feel that a merciful God (like the one i believe we have) will see that, that is why ghandi is in heaven

[rsf]

36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It's the heart that matters. But to those who much is given, much is expected. We have the Word of God. Therefore we are expected to teach the gospel to anyone and everyone who is willing to hear it. Judgement is God's. If He wants Ghandi, He has him. I have no idea just how much of the Word of God Ghandi had to be judged on, I only know that the Creator of the entire Universe (And who knows how much more) is a just and fair God. And He will do what is right because He IS right.

[solitarysoul]

rsf put that very well relativestranger. But where you're mistaken which is what I was trying to explain is that US, being men, cannot possibly know on that level what exactly is always right, because we are not perfect. To say, "God will do what is right, and therefore Ghandi is in Heaven" is what would be an arrogant statement, because we have no way of knowing where Ghandi is. To us, by man's standards, it may seem as though the right thing to do would allow Ghandi into Heaven. But you have to look at it from God's perspective. Jesus taugh that Heaven cannot be earned, no matter how "good" you are, because we can never be perfect. If Heaven could be earned, then there would have been no point for Jesus to come to earth, or at least die for us, in the first place, because there would be another way to get there other than faith in what He has done for us. But see the thing is, "faith in Christ" is not classified by how "good" you are, it's a matter of a conscious choice, choosing "I believe in Christ's sacrifice and I desire to follow His teachings because I love Him so much for what He has done for me". That's what faith in Christ literally means. I'm not claiming Ghandi is in hell, because there is no way for a man to know. Even if for example I was entirely right about everything I said, that still wouldn't mean Ghandi would be in hell, because he could have accepted Christ into his heart just before dieing, there's a lot of people who do that actually. But the point is, what is right in God's eyes is not always going to be what we think is "right", because you have to keep in mind we are the children, and He is the father. We live in a world of deciet, and many times we misunderstand things.

[relativestranger]

solitarysoul said:

rsf put that very well relativestranger. But where you're mistaken which is what I was trying to explain is that US, being men, cannot possibly know on that level what exactly is always right, because we are not perfect. To say, "God will do what is right, and therefore Ghandi is in Heaven" is what would be an arrogant statement, because we have no way of knowing where Ghandi is. To us, by man's standards, it may seem as though the right thing to do would allow Ghandi into Heaven. But you have to look at it from God's perspective. Jesus taugh that Heaven cannot be earned, no matter how "good" you are, because we can never be perfect. If Heaven could be earned, then there would have been no point for Jesus to come to earth, or at least die for us, in the first place, because there would be another way to get there other than faith in what He has done for us. But see the thing is, "faith in Christ" is not classified by how "good" you are, it's a matter of a conscious choice, choosing "I believe in Christ's sacrifice and I desire to follow His teachings because I love Him so much for what He has done for me". That's what faith in Christ literally means. I'm not claiming Ghandi is in hell, because there is no way for a man to know. Even if for example I was entirely right about everything I said, that still wouldn't mean Ghandi would be in hell, because he could have accepted Christ into his heart just before dieing, there's a lot of people who do that actually. But the point is, what is right in God's eyes is not always going to be what we think is "right", because you have to keep in mind we are the children, and He is the father. We live in a world of deciet, and many times we misunderstand things.

oh no i didnt say he was i said in my mind he was, as in my opinion, and i dont like the wor dmistaken, i understand that i dont know God mind, however you say its me being childish whereas you are the one that constantly says i am wrong about opinions, which in there esscence of the word cannot be wrong

you talk as fact whereas i talk as opinion, it is my opinion, i think etc

this is because i dont want to win, that is not the point

Jesus came to earth as people where going off track, to guide and to make the world more peaceful

in my opinion that is not what jesus taught at all, that is what has been interpreted and tbh mostly from the line you have already quoted. jesus taught love and acceptance this is fact

he taught peace on earth and the sanctity of being calm and responsive--fact

he taught that you should not fight back and should respect everyone and everything--fact

everything else that is said is a matter of opinion and a certain way of interpreting the bible that has become convention since, like i have mentioned, the church excomunicated pelagius as they were losing too much power and sway in the 4th or 5th century

oh and you know that the point i was making is not that ghandi would have had to accept christ into his heart to get into heaven so the only possible reason to write that is to get on my nerves

[relativestranger]

rsf said:

36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It's the heart that matters. But to those who much is given, much is expected. We have the Word of God. Therefore we are expected to teach the gospel to anyone and everyone who is willing to hear it. Judgement is God's. If He wants Ghandi, He has him. I have no idea just how much of the Word of God Ghandi had to be judged on, I only know that the Creator of the entire Universe (And who knows how much more) is a just and fair God. And He will do what is right because He IS right.

that is very much fair enough, preach away and yes, i am lucky in this life to have mostly what i want so the onus should be on me to preach the word of God

i understand that i dont know how God judges people, i simply said in my mind that is what i bleieve, and i hope it to be true, it allows me to keep faith, if i were to believe the way ss does i would not be able to keep faith for long