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Post by Betty on Apr 1, 2006 9:48:51 GMT -5
That is also stated in the Bible. There have been many who followed the teachings before they even knew of Him. I can find that verse also.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 1, 2006 9:52:44 GMT -5
yes, actually ive had this conversation before, It goes if you can only get into heaven by believing in Jesus then obviously Jesus was the first one into heaven (as all disciples still alive) so who was second
answer: the murderer beside Him on the cross who Jesus forgave all his sins
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Post by Betty on Apr 1, 2006 10:04:05 GMT -5
I disagree with you here. There is the parable of the rich man and Lazarth (mis spelled) that clearly showed that Lazarth was in heaven when Jesus was still here preaching.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 1, 2006 10:10:40 GMT -5
lovely, then that clearly shows that you do not have to be a christian to get into heaven, merely to live correctly and peacefully(as is the christian teachings)
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Post by Betty on Apr 1, 2006 10:15:42 GMT -5
Before Christ died and rose again from the dead Yes! If you followed His teachings. Now Christ has risen and is the Only way. I do believe that Abraham is also there along with Moses. They followed God's teaching to the best of their ability. David also and David believed in Christ. I will find that verse if I need to.
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Post by Betty on Apr 1, 2006 10:19:31 GMT -5
I would also like to know what Bible you use. I think it would be better if I quoted "scripture and verse" from the one you use.
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Andy
Prayer Team 
Jesus Loves You!
Posts: 54
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Post by Andy on Apr 1, 2006 11:45:35 GMT -5
In the koran the muslims believe that you can only read what is written correctly if you read it in its original language as only then can the true 'pure' meaning be unveiled. I believe a similar thing is true of the bible and to get the true meaning should only be taken from the latin version. If you take everything literally from other translations then you are going to be fighting for something that a scribe copied wrong. So do you speak read latin? I guess you must as any other translation would be wrong? Unfortunetly God made me English, and I dont pick up other languages so I have to read the english bible as that is the closest thing to Gods word I have. Translators wrote the English bible as close to the original as possible, I dont believe we have the right to pick and choose what we believe, God would not have let humans miswrite his word. |
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 1, 2006 12:04:11 GMT -5
no latin is a dead language, is impossible to speak, i cn read basic but... i read so many different versions of bible all with slightly different inflections that the exact wording means less and the interpretation means more. I try to understand the meaning behind the words which is why i do not like just quoting the bible. Obviously that means all words are put through a kind of me sieve but that is the only way i can believe and hope to understand, and surely God will only let me understand the way he wants me too
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Post by Betty on Apr 1, 2006 13:03:40 GMT -5
Let me get this stright. You believe "surely God will only let me understand the way he wants me too" but you fail to believe that He can not control what humans put into His book that leads us to Him?
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 1, 2006 19:32:16 GMT -5
no sorry, i was being sarcastic. i will understand things a certain way because God has made me that way but obviously i may make mistakes as i am only human. However it is my belief that God doent punish people for making mistakes, only for being sinful, so if i misinterpret something it is fine as long as i dont harm anyone in doing so
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Post by Betty on Apr 1, 2006 19:59:00 GMT -5
That my friend is what the Cross means. Forgivenss is the whole message of the Cross. That and love. Jesus died so we could be forgiven. God doesn't even punish you if you sin and if you are in Christ and confess your sin. If you confess your sins He is faithful and will forgive you all your transgressions.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 2, 2006 6:46:02 GMT -5
i am sorry i cannot have this conversation, it seems that no matter how i phrase the fact i dont believe you have to be a christian to get into heaven, just a good person, u have a steadfast unshakable belief and don't even seem to listen.
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Post by Betty on Apr 2, 2006 11:15:31 GMT -5
I believe the Bible. That is very unshakable. I believe what the Bible says and it says that we can only come to the Father through Jeus.
I have asked you what Bible you use so I could use it to quote scripture and verse and you have not so this is from the NIV:
Jesus: The only way to be saved
John 14: 6 I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
1 Peter 17If you call “Father” the one who judges everyone impartially according to what he has done, you must live reverently as long as you are strangers here. 18For you know that it was not with perishable things like silver or gold that you were ransomed from the worthless way of life handed down to you by your ancestors, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or defect. 20On the one hand, he was foreknown before the foundation of the world
Hebrews 1: 5For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”? 6And again, when he brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” 7Now about the angels he says, “He makes his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire.” 8But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God,
is forever and ever,
and the scepter of your kingdom
is a righteous scepter.
9 You have loved righteousness
and hated wickedness.
That is why God, your God,
anointed you rather than your companions
with the oil of gladness.”
10And,
“In the beginning, Lord,
you laid the foundation of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will come to an end,
but you will remain forever.
They will all wear out like clothes.
12 You will roll them up like a robe,
and they will be changed like clothes.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”
13But to which of the angels did he ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
14All of them are spirits on a divine mission, sent to serve those who are about to inherit salvation, aren’t they?
Romans 3: 21But now, apart from the Law, God’s righteousness is revealed and is attested by the Law and the Prophets—22God’s righteousness through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God’s glory. 24By his grace they are justified freely through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25whom God offered as a place where atonement by Christ’s blood could occur through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because he had waited patiently to deal with sins committed in the past. 26He wanted to demonstrate at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies the person who has the faithfulness of Jesus.
If you need more verses I will supply them also.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 2, 2006 11:35:16 GMT -5
i have many bibles, i dont use any of them as u seem to mean, the one i looked up stuff in before was gideons new testament. i know it said it in all the bible i just dont believe it word for word, i said i interpret it, and how can anyone who si supposed to be the saviour be so arrogant to mean what people interpret that as. I think the line 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me' should be interpreted as 'noone comes to the Father except by following MY TEACHINGS. i.e you can follow Jesus teachings without believing He is the son of God, Muslims do(if they are devout)
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Post by Betty on Apr 2, 2006 13:30:24 GMT -5
Justified by faith:
Galatians 2
15¡§We who are Jews by birth and not ¡¥Gentile sinners¡¦ 16know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 3:
24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ„T that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
The Bible makes it clear that ¡§all have sinned¡¨ ¡§there is none that are righteous¡¨ ¡§your are not saved by works least any man should boast.¡¨ There is no person on this planet who is ¡§good enough¡¨ to get to heaven by himself. If you have ever told a lie then you are a liar. If you have ever taken anything that does not belong to you then you are a thief. If any person can ¡§earn¡¨ their way to heaven by ¡§being good¡¨ then Jesus death on the cross was a waste of time. I am thankful for the goodness and grace of God. His goodness gives me what I do not deserve and His mercy does not give me what I do deserve. Jesus died on the cross, of His own free will, so that I and anyone who will believe in Him, can be forgiven our sins.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 8, 2006 4:17:49 GMT -5
If you truly believe that a person who tells one lie in there life will be denied entry to heaven because of it then i dispair for your faith in the mercy of God. For if this is true then God is just arrogant and self serving and this i cannot believe
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Post by tried N true on Apr 8, 2006 6:22:31 GMT -5
NO person will stop at telling just "one" lie. The point that was made here was that "All" have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Every one alive right now has comitted many-many sins. Christ died so that we could be forgiven, it is a free gift that many will refuse to accept. The choice is yours wheather to believe in Him or not.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 10, 2006 17:48:04 GMT -5
how many lies do you think mother theresa told, or mohatma ghandi, or martin luther king
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Post by Betty on Apr 16, 2006 12:33:14 GMT -5
Any time some one asked "How are you?" and they answered "Fine" when they were not "fine" is a lie. Everyone has told a lie at some point in their life. If someone ever asked you how they looked and you said ok when it really wasn't is a lie. God does not see sin in degrees like humans do. A lie is a lie!!! All HAVE sinned. Jesus paid the price for each and every sin not matter what the "degree.
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Post by relativestranger on Apr 19, 2006 16:27:42 GMT -5
God does not see sin in degrees like humans do. SO in answering a question with alie for the greater good is a sin.. The way you preach God i don't understand how you can do anything but cower as his vengance is sure to come upon you. If you believe all the things you say then i seriously do not understand how you can believe in a merciful God or any other thing besides. God made man in His own image therefore it stands to reason that things like degrees of lie are true to God too. And me asking how many lies these people commited was a point to of course they lied do you think they are not in heaven all three. The point was that King and mother Theresea i believe were christian...but ghandi was not and i do not believe that Ghandi was denied access to heaven.
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