Abortion-My Opinion!

[Messenger]

I would like to take a look at the issue of abortion.

One of the biggest arguments in the abortion debate is the issue of when does human life begin.

There is not a scientist in the world who would tell you that any living creature in the world can reproduce any offspring of a different species.

DNA is the most basic foundational building block of life in both animal & man. It is the most basic building block that makes every creature ONLY ABLE to reproduce it's own kind! It cannot reproduce any other species except it's own!

Even in the creation af a human baby, both the woman's egg, & the man's sperm, ONLY contain HUMAN DNA!

From the moment that the woman's egg is fertilized, that joined cell contains ONLY HUMAN DNA!

Once the fertilized egg starts to grow, it still contains ONLY HUMAN DNA!

That fertilized egg will ONLY DEVELOP INTO a human baby, because it contains ONLY HUMAN DNA!

Looking at these facts, let us see what Scripture says about reproduction:

Genesis 1:24 (New International Version)

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

Look at what I have underlined-".....each according to it's own kind."

When God created the world, He made it so that each creature, could only reproduce the same species! A cow could not reproduce a horse. A Pig could not reproduce a dog. Each creature that God created, could ONLY REPRODUCE IT'S OWN KIND-NOTHING ELSE!

It's the same way with humans-a human can only reproduce another human.

Regardless of what a baby looks like, when it is forming-it is still a human being!

It cannot be anything else!

When a human kills another human being-it is murder!

When a woman has an abortion-it is killing another human being, regardless of what stage of development the baby might might be in! Why is it murder-because the baby, even if it is unborn, has ONLY HUMAN DNA-NOTHING ELSE! It is STILL a human being!

An unborn baby is still a human being, because it CANNOT BE ANYTHING ELSE!

Abortion kills another human being.

Therefore abortion IS MURDER!

That's my opinion.

Bill

[Philly Morgana]

Lucky then it is an opinion.

I believe abortion is up to ONLY one person.

That person is the woman who is pregnant.

Her parents should not say "abort it or i dosown you" OR "if you abort it i'll disown you" (and other variation minus the Disown you but you get my drift.

the boyfriend does not get a say... and certainly a man or woman she has never met has not got a say. it is HER choice.

Beauty of free will.

no i don't believe it should be a form of contraception and people should be VERY careful when have sex with partners. Don't take the risk unless your willing to pay. but if the do everything they can and that accident still happen and the mother would have to give up school and most of her life thats asking alot and if she feels she can't do it its her choice to have it aborted... why? cause its HER body.

if a woman is raped and is pregnant from it any one who says she cannot have an abortion is wrong. they have just been through a trauma.... why make them live with that for the next 20 years.

If a woman keeps a kid she didn't want because she was presured that will reflect on the relationship with the child. yes there is adoption but every one with a brain cell knows that can go VERY badly or very good, and then they have the point when they try and find the parents. some people cannot live thru that. it affects them to badly mental. If the mother health is in anyway risked by the baby she has the choice of abortion.

Messenger if you believe what you say you must be against some forms of contrception then!
implant and the pill and a few others are veiwed as very early abortions.

and another point... if abortions were made illegal again you are bringing ALOT more pain and suffering down on alot of people! unless you want to go back to coathanger abortions down a dodgey back alley were the man then disposes of the bodies were it went wrong and the mother died.

Read some cases of these type of abortions

Clara Bell Duvall
Dec. 23, 1896 - March 27, 1929
Clara Duvall, her husband and five children (ages 6 months to 12 years) were living in Pittsburgh, Pa., with her parents due to limited financial resources when she learned she was pregnant again. Clara attempted a self-abortion with a knitting needle. Her doctor, knowing she was seriously ill and in severe pain, delayed sending her to a hospital for several weeks. The Catholic hospital where she died chose to list the cause of death as "pneumonia."

Ruth Irene Friedl
Aug. 24, 1901 - Aug. 21, 1929
Denied a legal abortion though her pregnancy was diagnosed as life-threatening, Ruth Friedl attempted to self-abort by drinking a plant poison, ergot apiol. That night at the dinner table of their home in Denver, Colo., with her husband and two small children present, she collapsed and died.

Pauline Roberson Shirley
June 22, 1910 - August 22, 1940
Pauline Shirley and her six children were living with her mother in Arizona while her husband sought work in California. After an illegal abortion, she began to hemorrhage and was hospitalized. She needed massive transfusions. While Pauline's mother searched the community for donors, Pauline bled to death.

Vivian Campbell
December 12, 1925 - May 6, 1950
Vivian Campbell was the mother of two children ages five and three. She was newly separated from her husband when she realized she was pregnant. Sending her children to stay with her parents, she sought and obtained an illegal abortion. She sent for her husband, but by the time he arrived at the hospital it was too late. She died in agony of peritonitis.

Geraldine Santoro
August 16, 1935 - June 8, 1964
The photo of Geraldine Santoro dead on a hotel room floor has become a symbol for the horror of illegal abortion. Gerri, as she was known, lived on her family farm in Coventry, Conn., with her two daughters. At the age of 28, separated from her abusive husband, she became pregnant by another man, Clyde Dixon. Afraid that her husband would kill her if he found out, she and Dixon looked for ways to terminate her pregnancy. With no other options, they attempted to perform the procedure themselves. When the operation went awry, Dixon fled, leaving Santoro behind where she bled to death. A chambermaid found her body the next morning.




That my friend... Is my opinion. Based on alot of medical fact, and with feeling to peoples lives before i condem and ruin them.

If you havn't geussed this is a serious issue for me and when people say it can't be done because its murder... well by not letting a person doing it you may murder them, or put them through a life of torture.

[jadisofeternity1]

the two people who wrote here each very well expressed the position of the two sides of this arguement. I stand on the third side of the abortion issue neither of you will ever win this arguement, and your points are all true and valid but they do not answer eachother, it is a shameful waste for either side to waste any time effort resources etc arguing those points. the need is not to determine whether abortion should be legal or illegal, but to eliminate from our culture the things that lead to a demand for abortion. women should not be raped, women should not put themselves in the position where they might become pregnant with a child they do not wish to bare and raise. all the resources that are now wasted on arguing this unwinable arguement should instead be spent on solving these problems, and then on helping those few women who do end up in that situation.

[memyselfni]

One point I want to present, why doesn't the baby get a choice?
I am always wondering that when I hear that it is "pro-choice"...
The woman is carrying a baby, so why doesn't the baby get a choice?
Unfortunate things happen...but what happens if someone gets in a bad position and kills someone? don't they normally get killed?
Isn't that called murder?
What if the husband God had planned for me has been aborted?
What is Thomas Edison got aborted?
Some questions I just wonder about...
I think that women who get raped, or get put in that position...and get pregnant, have no choice but to raise the child. I think that the child has a decision weather or not to live.
So baby's don't have a horrible life when they are aborted, that doesn't mean we should kill them.
What if the presidents and kings through out the world decided that no child should have to suffer so they killed them all?
It immotionally hurts the girls with the baby's...often they get hurt physically too..
I do have a strong opinion about this because I think everyone should have a chance to make their first decision.

[Jan]

I feel I must interject here. I was once in a situation where I was scared, penniless and struggling to bring up my children alone. I was raped by a neighbour and he got me pregnant. I knew I couldn’t cope and wanted to talk to the doctor about my options. She wanted me to contact the police about the rape, which I couldn’t do. I was too traumatised. She was more concerned with that than with my fears about the child I was carrying.
She told me that if I didn’t want to help myself she wouldn’t help me. If I didn’t report it, she thought I was just lying and that I’d agreed to the act. She told me she was Christian and that I would be a murderer if I agreed to an abortion, and that I would be forever condemned if I gave up my child for adoption, because it was a sin to refuse God’s gift. And if I kept the child, she told me that every time I looked at the child I would be reminded of my sin.
I left the doctors’ surgery totally distraught, not knowing what to do, where to go, what to think.
When 3 days later I miscarried (twins, as it turned out) and was rushed to hospital seriously ill from major blood-loss and dehydration, I felt I had once again sinned, because my body had rejected my babies.
My church treated me like a scapegoat. Wouldn’t sit next to me, wouldn’t ask how I was, whispered about me, wouldn’t allow me to break bread with them.
I felt bereaved – I had miscarried two children…. I felt a sense of freedom – the problem had resolved itself naturally. I felt like the world’s worst sinner – and my church were demonstrating just how “loving” Christians could be. And I was still reeling from the rape.
Life goes on. Its many years since that awful time. The judgemental holier-than-thou attitude of the church was one of the many reasons I left the Christianity.
However, it has taught me not to judge others. Everyone is different. What works for one, will not necessarily work for another. We all make decisions based on different situations, and who are WE to judge, when we don’t know how we will react when placed in the same situation.

[Andy]

No church should treat anyone like they treated you Jan. I can only appologise for what my brothers and sisters in christ have done to you.

God Bless

Andy

[memyselfni]

Jan, that is aweful. The thing is though, God forgives anything. He doesn't just keep murder forever. We are perfect. But I can't at all make any excuse at all for the way we treated you. I am very sorry.
I am sorry that she thought you would be forever condemed if you put it up for adoption. That is not true, our God is a loving God, he can fix mistakes.
I hope that I didn't in any way make you think that I believe what she thought. It is wrong to abort, but miscarraige is not a problem of the carrier usualy. My Mom miscarried, we were all soo sad, but it wasn't her fault. It wasn't yours either. God wouldn't ever hold it against you.
I wish I could somehow make it better I just wanted to state that is not what I know from my God.
Once again I am soo sorry that Christians treated you that way. People who claimed that God was loving and that we are supposed to be like him. But at least Christ and God aren't...I just wish I never hurt anyone.
~*~**Kristy**~*~

[Betty]

I am also very sorry for the way church people treated you and especially the doctor who was supposed to help you. There are so many church people who are not Christian. That word means "in Christ and Christ in you" There will be many who will be very suprised where they will spend eternity. "Not everyone who calls Lord Lord will be in Heaven."

[relativestranger]

messenger said:

I would like to take a look at the issue of abortion.
Each creature that God created, could ONLY REPRODUCE IT'S OWN KIND-NOTHING ELSE!

Bill

This is not true, some different animals can produce a new species. for example when donkeys and horses reproduce they create mules, now mules cant reproduce but anyway.

[rsf]

relativestranger said:

messenger said:

I would like to take a look at the issue of abortion.
Each creature that God created, could ONLY REPRODUCE IT'S OWN KIND-NOTHING ELSE!

Bill

This is not true, some different animals can produce a new species. for example when donkeys and horses reproduce they create mules, now mules cant reproduce but anyway.

That may be God's way of showing evolutionists the error of their ways. Just like the moons that rotate or spin the opposite direction totally throw off the "big bang" theory of the tiny heavy massed spinning then exploding ball of energy.

Abortion is still murder. It's the willful destruction of human life. I willingly took my girlfriend, and paid to extinguish the life in her belly. I took part in the murder of an unborn baby. Am I guilty? Sure am. But the blood of Jesus covered that sin. Just as He covered all my other sins, and all the sins of everyone who has faith in Him.

I can't even begin to tell you all the remorse from that one scared moment in my life. But I can tell you that I am forgiven, and would never ever have part in that act again.

If my wife was raped, cheated on me, or just didn't want the baby period, I would beg her to keep it, and love that child more than anything in the world.

Hindsight is 20/20 for sure. But that's what keeps us from making the same mistakes over and over.

[relativestranger]

tbf i dont agree with abortion, if a woman aborted my child for whatever reason i dont know what i would do( i will never rape anyone so the only understandable reason is therefore gone)

i was just pointing holes in argument

and mues prove evolution not disprove it

[rsf]

if DNA changes can't carry on a new line of species, they are doomed and therefore worth nothing more than an impotent baggage carrier

I'm happy to hear your views on abortion though.

[relativestranger]

ah actually thats a very interestingpoint about the mules

yhe one animal that proes evolution however is the bat...next time u go to a zoo look closely ull see what i mean

i want children, it is what we are put here for after all, so if i am blesssed enough to concieve in any way that child will be born

i am not one for one night stands nor do i have meaningless casual sex with partners i dont feel a lot for, i can say that i am waiting till im married like i possibly should have but if a woman falls pregnant from me it will be because we are in a commited relationship, even allowing for condoms to break. therefore there will not be any excuse for aborting what is esentially also my child and honestly i dont think i would be able to look at that woman again without seeing mylost baby

[rsf]

Tell me about the bats so I can know what to look for. To me they are flying blind mice. Is there something to suggest they are changing?

[relativestranger]

rsf said:

Tell me about the bats so I can know what to look for. To me they are flying blind mice. Is there something to suggest they are changing?

yes, fruit bats in paticular, dont look like mice but likemonkeys with wings, and its not just a passing resemblance, ill see if i can get a link to the breed im talking about

its this park www.wildanimalpark.co.uk/bataviary.htm

but that is a terrible picture as you cannot see its arms, the bats at this park being so close to the spider monkeys was truly amazing to see, as they were identical bar the wings of the fruit bat

tbf it could just be a coincidence but then anything could be. also check out the amount of lemurs in madagascar, there wasnt that many different speices in rest of the world at any point but no predators on that island meant lots of different speicies.

I do believe in evolution and do not think that it contradicts God, as surely a God that can not only create something, but then continue to change it to give it a better quality of life is better then one that creates something then says i dont care any more.

and im talking about other animals rather then humans here as i dont want the argument to come back regarding he did do something sent his son etc

[rsf]

Can't really tell from that photo. But one thing I do know about them is their teeth. They look like the teeth of a carnivore, but they are strict vegitarians. People that are all into evolution and dinosaurs should take the fruit bat into consideration when they say what dinosaurs ate what

[relativestranger]

rsf said:

Can't really tell from that photo. But one thing I do know about them is their teeth. They look like the teeth of a carnivore, but they are strict vegitarians. People that are all into evolution and dinosaurs should take the fruit bat into consideration when they say what dinosaurs ate what

that is a very good point

do you believe in reincarnation?

not about to debate pros and cons, already made my pitvh on how it does not contradict the divine plan or anything, just curious now

[rsf]

I believe there is another existence after this. I know there will be a new heaven and a new earth. And i know we will have new bodies. Ones that are incorruptible. I also know the bible says that those who have had everything in this life will not have it in the next, and those that have nothing will have it. Honestly though, I don't know what that means entirely but I believe it's true. I get that from the account of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke

19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.


Not at all sure of the exact meaning of this, but i believe it.