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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 6, 2007 9:24:34 GMT -5
I've been trying to witness a lot lately to my peers. It's so hard! But I know I need to do it. There are so many people decieved by the world today that it truly breaks my heart. Statistics suggest that if Christ were to come back today, at most only 1 out of every 30 Americans and Europeans, both 'Christian' and non, will be going with Him. Now of course those are just statistics and no one but God can tell you if you are saved, but still, that isn't good. This is a great message I found, I couldn't put it better myself, so I wanted to share it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8 |
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 7, 2007 5:07:56 GMT -5
it would be more then that i believe, but less people then that wud believe it about themselves
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 7, 2007 18:27:02 GMT -5
Did you watch the video? It is true that the majority of western Christianity is lost and has been decieved. The fact that we think we are saved and going to Heaven does not make it the case. Matthew 7 says that not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter into the Kingdom. The majority of America calls themselves Christians. But how many actually devote their life to becoming like Jesus? How many go to the Bible to find their answers to all their questions and needs? I'm not even sure if the minister of my church does that.
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 7, 2007 20:04:02 GMT -5
Did you watch the video? It is true that the majority of western Christianity is lost and has been decieved. The fact that we think we are saved and going to Heaven does not make it the case. Matthew 7 says that not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter into the Kingdom. The majority of America calls themselves Christians. But how many actually devote their life to becoming like Jesus? How many go to the Bible to find their answers to all their questions and needs? I'm not even sure if the minister of my church does that. i hope u dont go to the bible to find the answer to every little thing, tbh no its hard to get american tv here. for me i dont look at the bible to solve my problems, i look at myself, and try to work out how i should act rather then try to convince myself im doing right by the bible |
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 8, 2007 19:30:08 GMT -5
Did you watch the video? It is true that the majority of western Christianity is lost and has been decieved. The fact that we think we are saved and going to Heaven does not make it the case. Matthew 7 says that not everyone who calls Jesus Lord will enter into the Kingdom. The majority of America calls themselves Christians. But how many actually devote their life to becoming like Jesus? How many go to the Bible to find their answers to all their questions and needs? I'm not even sure if the minister of my church does that. i hope u dont go to the bible to find the answer to every little thing, tbh no its hard to get american tv here. for me i dont look at the bible to solve my problems, i look at myself, and try to work out how i should act rather then try to convince myself im doing right by the bible I look to the Bible to answer everything I can. Why should I not? It is what Jesus asked us to do, not ourselves. Jesus said that there is a way that seems right to man, but it will lead to death. If you put your full trust in the Bible, you can't go wrong, unless if you think Jesus lied  |
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Post by Betty on Mar 8, 2007 19:40:50 GMT -5
If the Bible can not give us the answers to our questions with prayer included then we are in for major problems. The Bible does have all the answers that pertain to life. With prayer and the help of the Holy Sprit, we really do have all we need.
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 8, 2007 19:46:46 GMT -5
for every litle, thing, now i understand why people whose faith is broken end up shattered i never did before, i like to think that the bible is a guide not a reference, a suggestion not an order, if you think differently then good luck, but im not changing that now, as i find comfort in working things out, and maybe i might use it occasionally, but there is nothing in the bible to tell you what to do when your dad is attacking your mother, and no time to go check either
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 8, 2007 19:53:28 GMT -5
We are sinful, fallen people, living in a fallen world. You cannot find complete truth within yourself and this world. Think about this analogy. You have a poluted pond (the world). No matter how hard you try, even through the most advanced water purification systems, you cannot get a perfectly clean glass of water out of that pond by worldy means, or man's knowledge. I'm not saying if you put your full trust in God and the Bible you'll get perfectly clean water out of polluted ponds ... remember that's just an analogy. What I'm saying is, if you look to the world or yourself for answers, you will eventually fall or be decieved. In fact, you will even be decieved into thinking that what I am saying right now is not true.
Believing in Jesus Christ does not simply mean that you think the Bible is true and that it has good advice to build your life off of. Believing in Jesus Christ means that He is your life. Everything you think, say, and do, is done with Him in mind. What He would do, and what He demonstrates through the Word. If you see every other Christian around you not living this way, that does not make them right. Majority does not rule when we are talking about God's standards. When you face Jesus after death, you will not be judged by how you compare to other Christians. You will not be pitied and accepted into Heaven just because everyone else lived their life that way. What you will be judged by is how you compare to the scriptures. Making Jesus the Lord of your life means to live for and by what the Bible says, and to live a life of love, faith, forgiveness, and repentance of your sins, and to truly desire to be shown the truth and turn away from a sinful lifestyle, out of love for God. Living your life up to the standards of other Christians or churches is not making Jesus the Lord of your life, it's making man-made doctrine and tradition the lord of your life.
By the way I apologize if I seem harsh when I say these things, I don't mean to! I just like to be quick to the point. I say everything out of friendlyness and love for you as a brother in Christ in hopes that we will all grow closer to the Lord. This is the most important matter of our lives so it is very important that we take it seriously, and not just demote it to opinion or personal preference.
Please read Romans 1 if you would and ponder on what it's saying for a while. That and Matthew 7 are both very good chapters that Americans really need to reread and seriously consider in their hearts. Are our lives in line with this discription? Do we have a real desire to not be the person the Bible describes in this passage? These are serious questions every Christian needs to look at honestly, because in the end it doesn't matter who wins debates or who lived a more successful life or who had the best reputation, because all that is gone, and all that will matter then is whether or not we lived by the Truth that we claim to know and have.
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 8, 2007 20:04:53 GMT -5
for every litle, thing, now i understand why people whose faith is broken end up shattered i never did before, i like to think that the bible is a guide not a reference, a suggestion not an order, if you think differently then good luck, but im not changing that now, as i find comfort in working things out, and maybe i might use it occasionally, but there is nothing in the bible to tell you what to do when your dad is attacking your mother, and no time to go check either Oh but it does! It is not going to specifically say, "do this when your parents are fighting" lol. You have to read the Bible, and continue reading it all the days of your life, to make it a part of you and learn it well. You will start to become like Christ and handle situations or respond to such things in the manner that He would. The Bible is not a guide book like an encyclopedia or dictionary where you look up a verse to help you make a decision about something. It is God's Word, the book of Life, and by reading it all the days of your life you will be changed and continue to change into that person Jesus was. Believe me, I was in your possition once upon a time, in fact, not but a year or two ago. I thought the Bible was just a guide book, and I treated it as such, to look at now and then when I thought it would be helpful. But I later realized what the Bible is really about, once I read the whole thing. It isn't even a challange hardly. Did you know that with 15 minutes devoted to reading the Bible a day, just 15 minutes, you'll go through it easily once a year? I read an hour of so a day and I get through the Bible 5 times a year now ... I've developed my own 73-day schedule. The point is, Christianity in the world today is lost, and no offence meant to you at all, but your thoughts on the Bible are a perfect example of what it is producing. I am not saying I am any better of a person by any means, so please don't get me wrong there, I mean this out of love for you! I use to be far worse believe me lol. I use to be so thin skinned that no matter what anyone would tell me, I would disagree even if they were right, because I was that prideful. Christianity today isn't about the Gospel of Jesus, it's about whatever people feel is right. But that is not what the Bible teaches. So many people run around thinking they are saved because they say they believe in Jesus and the Bible. But if they would just let go of the world and take a deep honest look at what the Bible really says, they would be shocked. We are so decieved into believing these things because Christianity today does not focus entirely on the Bible anymore. It has been overcome too much with secularism and man-made traditions. People care more about how others will see them than they do about how God will see them, and they base their beliefs off what they feel to be best or most enjoyable to them right now. But my friend, that is not Christianity, not the doctrine that Jesus taught. And this is what Jesus meant in Matthew 7 when He said that not all who call Him Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father who is in Heaven. |
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rsf
Prayer Team 
Posts: 75
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Post by rsf on Mar 8, 2007 20:05:49 GMT -5
Reading and understanding the bible with prayer helps us to understand the mind and heart of God. When we do that, we learn what he would have us do in every situation. Not that the bible itself has all the answers to every question, only that the bible helps us understand God's will so we can properly react in a way pleasing to Him in every situation.
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 8, 2007 20:11:49 GMT -5
why is it that when reading any posts by rsf i turn more towards traditional christianity, e.g he actually made me go find my bible and start reading it, but when reading what solitarysoul says it makes me think of words such as pompous and sanctimonious. find the help then in that situation, and remeber you have five seconds before the cricket bat connects as wellas only a third grade education reading skill
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 8, 2007 20:14:33 GMT -5
oh and im not american, so dont assume that, if i was i would probably have grown up in the bible belt too, however my christian influences come from irish catholic roots
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 8, 2007 20:42:50 GMT -5
I did not grow up in the Bible belt and I was once an agnostic  . And when I say American I was generalizing western society, first world countries, the americas and europe for the most part. |
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 8, 2007 20:44:05 GMT -5
If fact speaking of which, to demonstrate my point ... America and European countries use to (and still do of course) send missionaries to third world countries to preach the Gospel. Well, believe it or not, a lot of those third world countries are actually sending missionaries to the Americas and European countries now to preach to US the Gospel. That should say something...
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 8, 2007 20:49:53 GMT -5
If fact speaking of which, to demonstrate my point ... America and European countries use to (and still do of course) send missionaries to third world countries to preach the Gospel. Well, believe it or not, a lot of those third world countries are actually sending missionaries to the Americas and European countries now to preach to US the Gospel. That should say something... yes i believe it, i was already aware of it, and dont generalise europe with america as when we bomb a place we can find it on a map. it suggests that the missionaries did a great job, it suggests when man is suffering his need for a God increases and it suggests creature comforts stop people from needing to reafirm there beliefs. and for once i agree with the point you are making, but still you ignore the question |
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 9, 2007 2:58:28 GMT -5
lol hey play nice  That may be sadly true to an extent but that's not an accurate representation of everyone who lives here . I know many Americans who excell so much farther in certain subjects than most Europeans, and vice versa. The point is, America and Europe are quite similar as far as society goes these days. Both the Americas and Europe are big on entertainment and the media, and there is in general a great loss in moral values, traditions, respect, etc. Sadly yes. Many people in western society today live life as if it is all about us, and God is there just in case if we need Him (or to some, even created by us). But it is the other way around. Life is all about God, and we are suppose to be living for His will and purpose. That's what the Bible teaches and that's what I mean when I compare America and Europe together. In general compared to the majority of the rest of the world, western society has become very decieved into this new lifestyle. So decieved that the great majority do not even realize that they are being decieved into believing that this statement is not true! But Jesus didn't die on the cross so that we could live happy comfortable lives, full of abundance and pleasure. Jesus died on the cross so that those who believe in Him and submit their lives to Him will be forgiven of their sins and inherit eternal life, so that once life is over here, then they recieve that eternal pleasure and happyness. But anywho, what question am I not answering? |
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 9, 2007 7:05:26 GMT -5
where in the bible a it happens does it help my problem, the one that stopped me reading it for everything and instead relying on myself sometimes, incidently i believe what the excomunicate Pelagius, that each of us contains the divine spark, a way to connect with God oursleves, to live the way he wants by listening to this inner voice and guiding it with the bible and other teachings. The inner voice which is similar to your conscience has to be lsitened to and obviously changes the more you read the bible or whichever religious text you beleive in
and you spelled anyhow incorrectly
Oh and the term western society is so not pc, and illustrates greatly my earlier point about americans, britain is not western it is very much central, as is most of europe, the term western society comes from ancient rome and certainly does not include america to make it do so is very annoyingly patriotic and ignoring geography
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 9, 2007 11:45:47 GMT -5
I think you're getting western society mixed up with Western Thought. Western Thought is the idea that started in Rome, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about modern day western society, which has only begun mostly within the past century, and includes at least Western Europe (mainland and the UK), the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Primarily first world countries which have much to do with the media and entertainement, and in general have turned away from moral values and traditions to a more secular lifestyle, thus decieving great amounts of people into thinking that Christianity and Heaven is a matter of our own personal choice or views.
I hope you understand that I am not out to say your views are wrong or unreasonable or anything. All I am saying is that while you are of course entitled completely to your own belief, this is not what Jesus taught, and it is not what the Bible teaches when you get right down to it. And the important issue is that we don't get into Heaven based on how we view life and beliefs. If we face Jesus after death one day and He turns us away, you can't say that you didn't know any better or that you thought there was a better way of living, there is no excuse, because this is why we were given the Bible.
Before you come to any conclusions about what you believe though, it is extremely important that you at least understand this one thing. There are two kinds of truth. Opinionated truth, and factual truth. I am not trying to cram my beleifs down your throat or anything, I am simply sharing what I know, because (as arrogant as it may sound) I know the Bible is true, and I know the Bible in depth decently well, and so therefore I know that this belief you are describing (again no offence intended) is not supported biblically, and I'm trying to help there. But back to what I was saying...
One type of truth is opinionated truth. For example, if I like pizza and cars, this is the truth for me, but that does not necessarily make it the truth for you of course, because not everyone likes pizza and cars.
The second type of truth is factual truth. If I jump off a bridge over a river, it is not simply my opinion that I am going to fall into the river. We know as fact that gravity exists.
The point is that most people tend to think that religion is a matter of opinionated truth. We all have the right to believe what we want to believe after all. "What's true for you may not be true for me" some say. But assuming the Bible is completely accurate (which it is, but that is a different story), it states that religion is not a matter of opinionated truth, it is a matter of factual truth. In other words, either it is true, or it isn't, regardless of what we believe in. What I'm getting at is that if you come up with your own belief system in this life, while that may be completely acceptable by man's standards, that does not earn a place in Heaven. Heaven cannot be "earned" after all, it can only be inherited by accepted Jesus into your heart and trusting fully in Him, having faith in the sacrifice He made for you. That is the biggest difference in Christianity from every other religion in the world. Every other religion suggests that we, mortal carnal beings, must please God, the eternal, omnipotent, perfect Creator of the universe, in order to get into paradise. Christianity acknowledges that this is not possible. But what I'm trying to say is that beliefs in something does not make it true. For an obvious examlpe, going back to my example of jumping off a bridge ... if I don't believe in gravity, that doesn't mean it isn't true for me and therefore I won't fall if I jump off a bridge. Regardless of whether I believe in gravity or not, if I jump off a bridge, I'm going to fall, because that's just the truth. The Bible is the same, and again, that is not my opinion. And once again, regardless of whether it would be my opinion or not, that doesn't change the truth.
What's true for me doesn't mean it will not be true for you too simply because you believe otherwise. If the Bible is true, then no matter what we believe, every single person will face either Heaven or Hell. And where they end up is again not a matter of their own beleifs, it is a matter of how we hold up to the lifestyle that Jesus told us to change to, and how well we truly have faith in His sacrifice for us.
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Post by relativestranger on Mar 9, 2007 20:05:42 GMT -5
actully i have heard this before, and tbh if you believe this and follow this then fair play to you, however i dont believe that the bible produces one way to live even if, as you've suggested it is assumed correct, which i am assuming for the purposes of this argument, it doesnt matter that i also believe it to be true
i believe that the bible can be interpreted many different ways and how you interpret depends on your upbringing and your state of mind when you read certain parts FOR THE FIRST TIME. not angry there just emphasis
so how you interpret a certain part may be different from how, for example, a european such as myself might interpret it.
this is not true for all passages as some are very unambiguous however some arnt and it will be a measure of your open mindedness if you can have got this far without thinking to yourself this is wrong, i hope you have
try it with somone like me or someone else so it does not skew argument, pick a passage that is one of the more ambiguous in your mind, even though you may not see it that way, and find what other people get from it, i bet you'll be pleasantly surprised.
And the beauty of it is this, if that turns out to be indeed the case you dont need to change your beliefs at all cos in the way i look at it if you follow the bible to your own interpretaion and dont harm others and follow the main teachings you will get into heaven.
and yes for me reading a book is not like jumping off a bridge, there is plenty that can happen before you hit the water depending on when you jump, and what bridge
also who is doing the jumping may also effect the outcome
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Post by solitarysoul on Mar 10, 2007 3:38:58 GMT -5
The Bible doesn't assume there is one way to live, you can live however you want. But what the Bible is saying is that there is only one way to inherit Heaven, by accepting the sacrifice Jesus made which bridged the gap between man and God, and WHEN someone accepts that sacrifice, that changes their life, and they desire out of love for God to live by the Bible. Yes but see you're still thinking about this world. If you just read the Bible for however you want to read it, of course it can be interpreted in many different ways. But the fact of the matter is, the way we choose to interpret something will not save us from hell. You can't face Jesus one day and say, "but I thought this way was better", and expect Him to let you into Heaven. He will weep for you but because of the fact that God is perfect and just, His will cannot allow for Him to let someone in if they have not accepted the sacrifice that Jesus has made from us and live the way that Jesus has asked us to, BECAUSE if we do not, then we have not followed the path to the bridge across the gap between man and God, we have followed a path that ends at the ledge of that gap. You see I think you're still misunderstanding something here. God isn't saying, "believe this or else", He is letting us know, in the same way that a mother would let a child know that if you run off the edge of a skycraper you're going to fall, that "there is only one bridge across the gap, and this is what you need to do in order to reach that bridge, so that you can come home to Me". The child can deny the parent and run around whever it wants to, but that wont save the child from falling if it disobeys the parent and runs off the edge of the building. See, it's the same type of relationship ... the Bible even calls us God's children. If the child disobeys the mother because it doesn't understand and it thinks there is a better way (because it may be more pleasing, for example), that does not mean the mother doesn't love the child and is punishing the child when it falls off the ledge. It means that the mother DOES love the child, because she wants the child to be SAVED, which would require the child listening to her and doing what she says SO THAT the child will live. And my caps are for ephasis as well lol, I'm not yelling I promise And THAT truth is not a matter of difference in interpretation. That truth is the whole key of the Bible. To misinterpret or misunderstand that isn't to interpret the Bible in a different way, it is to entirely misunderstand what the authors of the Bible are trying to tell you. You may interpret passages or verses in different ways, but this is not simply a passage, this is the very "plot" if you will, the very purpose and meaning of the Bible. And that does not differentiate between cultures, languages, or location, as you will notice if you study the ancient texts. They were written in different languages, by about 40 people, over a span of 1500 or so years. There is only one purpose and meaning of the Bible, regardless of how we want to interpret it. Again this ties back to truth. I love green beans lol, but say for example that you do not. If you don't, then that is true for me, but not true for you. That is a type of truth, but it is opinionated truth. In some cases that may be the case for some verses or passages. But when you're about the MEANING of the Bible, which is what I'm discussing here, it's not a matter of it being true for me but not for you, it's a matter of factual truth, such as gravity ... gravity isn't just true for those who want to believe in it. And this isn't my opinion, this is fact, because the authors of the Bible, and the fact that God inspired it to be written and destributed throughout all the world, had a particular message they are trying to get across. |
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. And when I say American I was generalizing western society, first world countries, the americas and europe for the most part.
That may be sadly true to an extent but that's not an accurate representation of everyone who lives here