Is Infant baptism really Scriptural?

[Messenger]

I received this e-mail from a catholic priest, about this topic. But he was doing nothing but dancing around the very topic of iinfant baptism, without providing ANY CONCRETE Biblical evidence to support his posistion.

My comments to what he said in in ():

See: Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 - these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant - Col 2:11-12 - however, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

(Circumcision has NOTHING to do with Bapotism.)

Job 14:1-4 - man that is born of woman is full of trouble and unclean. Baptism is required for all human beings because of our sinful human nature.

(Where in Jesus' message does he say that we should be baptized?)

Psalm 51:5 - we are conceived in the iniquity of sin. This shows the necessity of baptism from conception.

(No, it shows that we are sinners from conception )

Matt. 18:2-5 - Jesus says unless we become like children, we cannot enter into heaven. So why would children be excluded from baptism?

(This is a metaphor, meaning that that we should approach God AS littke children, who are as close to innocent as can be-needing God for EVERYTHING.)

Matt 19:14 - Jesus clearly says the kingdom of heaven also belongs to children. There is no age limit on entering the kingdom, and no age limit for being eligible for baptism.

(As Above)

Mark 10:14 - Jesus says to let the children come to Him for the kingdom of God also belongs to them. Jesus says nothing about being too young to come into the kingdom of God.

(Were does it say anything about baptism here?)

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved." But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with "He who does not believe will be condemned." This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a "believer's baptism."

(What comes first? BELIEF. How can a baby believe ANYTHING?)

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

(It says TOUCH-NOT baptize)

Acts 2:38 - Peter says to the multitude, "Repent and be baptized.." Protestants use this verse to prove one must be a believer (not an infant) to be baptized. But the Greek translation literally says, "If you repent, then each one who is a part of you and yours must each be baptized” (“Metanoesate kai bapistheto hekastos hymon.”) This, contrary to what Protestants argue, actually proves that babies are baptized based on their parents’ faith. This is confirmed in the next verse.

(I say again-how can a baby repent?)

Acts 2:39 - Peter then says baptism is specifically given to children as well as adults. “Those far off” refers to those who were at their “homes” (primarily infants and children). God's covenant family includes children. The word "children" that Peter used comes from the Greek word "teknon" which also includes infants.

(Can you prove this?)

Luke 1:59 - this proves that "teknon" includes infants. Here, John as a "teknon" (infant) was circumcised. See also Acts 21:21 which uses “teknon” for eight-day old babies. So baptism is for infants as well as adults.

(Again, we are talking about CIRCUNCISISM-Not baptism)

Acts 10:47-48 - Peter baptized the entire house of Cornelius, which generally included infants and young children. There is not one word in Scripture about baptism being limited to adults.

(can you prove this?)

Acts 16:15 - Paul baptized Lydia and her entire household. The word "household" comes from the Greek word "oikos" which is a household that includes infants and children.

(Can you prove that there were infants in Lydia's house?)

Acts 16:15 - further, Paul baptizes the household based on Lydia's faith, not the faith of the members of the household. This demonstrates that parents can present their children for baptism based on the parents' faith, not the children's faith.

(Prove that she HAD children)

Acts 16:30-33 - it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church's practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a "believer's baptism" requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years)

(Where in Scripture does it say be baptized, & repent?)

Acts 16:33 - Paul baptized the jailer (an adult) and his entire household (which had to include children). Baptism is never limited to adults and those of the age of reason. See also Luke 19:9; John 4:53; Acts 11:14; 1 Cor. 1:16; and 1 Tim. 3:12; Gen. 31:41; 36:6; 41:51; Joshua 24:15; 2 Sam. 7:11, 1 Chron. 10:6 which shows “oikos” generally includes children.

(Prove that there were children)

Rom. 5:12 - sin came through Adam and death through sin. Babies' souls are affected by Adam's sin and need baptism just like adult souls.

(Again, where does it sa be baptized & repent?)

Rom. 5:15 - the grace of Jesus Christ surpasses that of the Old Covenant. So children can also enter the new Covenant in baptism. From a Jewish perspective, it would have been unthinkable to exclude infants and children from God's Covenant kingdom.

(As above, where does it say bebaptized,m & repent?)

1 Cor. 1:16 - Paul baptized the household ("oikos") of Stephanus. Baptism is not limited to adults.
(prove there were kids)

Eph. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - Paul addresses the "saints" of the Church, and these include the children he addresses in Eph. 6:1 and Col. 3:20. Children become saints of the Church only through baptism.

(Where does it say, be Baptized & repent?)

Eph. 2:3 - we are all by nature children of wrath, in sin, like all mankind. Infants are no exception. See also Psalm 51:5 and Job 14:1-4 which teach us we are conceived in sin and born unclean.

(No argument here.)



2 Thess. 3:10 - if anyone does not work let him not eat. But this implies that those who are unable to work should still be able to eat. Babies should not starve because they are unable to work, and should also not be denied baptism because they are unable to make a declaration of faith.
(& babies are unable to repent! Where does it say, be baptized & repent?)

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:3-5 - the faith of those who brought in the paralytic cured the paralytic's sins. This is an example of the forgiveness of sins based on another's faith, just like infant baptism. The infant child is forgiven of sin based on the parents' faith.
(Where does Scripture say, be baptized & repent?)

Matt. 8:5-13 - the servant is healed based upon the centurion's faith. This is another example of healing based on another's faith. If Jesus can heal us based on someone else’s faith, then He can baptize us based on someone else’s faith as well.
(Where are the children that this verse implies? It says servant-NOT Child)

Mark 9:22-25 - Jesus exercises the child's unclean spirit based on the father's faith. This healing is again based on another's faith.
(Where is baptism talked about here?)

1 Cor. 7:14 – Paul says that children are sanctified by God through the belief of only one of their parents.
(Sacntified-NOT BAPTIZED)

Exodus 12:24-28 - the Passover was based on the parent's faith. If they did not kill and eat the lamb, their first-born child died.
(No argument here.)

Joshua 5:2-7 - God punished Israel because the people had not circumcised their children. This was based on the parent's faith. The parents play a critical role in their child's salvation.[unquote]
(Agreed, but where in Scripture does it say, be baptised & repent?)

(I don't mean to sound cruel here, but all you have here is inferrence & supposistion.)

Bottom line here:

What was the message of John the Baptist? Repent & be baptised.
What was the message of Jesus? Repent.
What was the message of the Apostles? Repent & be baptized.

NOWHERE does it say Be baptised AND repent.

Baptism is ALWAYS pictured as an OUTWARD expresion of ones faith. How can a baby have faith?

Just curious.

Bill

[catholicdefender]

"Can you give me a Bible verse on infant baptism?" I often hear this from Catholics who want to explain the Church’s teaching on the subject to non-Catholics.

Well, no and yes. No, because there is no Bible verse that says, "Baptize infants" (just as there is no Bible verse that says, "Do not baptize infants"). But, yes, I can give you a Bible verse on infant baptism if you understand that the Church’s teaching on this subject flows from the Church’s teachings on original sin and the sacrament of baptism.

In this article, I will focus on explaining, from the Bible, the Church’s teaching on original sin to help us understand the Church’s teachings on baptism. Most non-Catholics don’t care about what the pope says or what the Catechism says or what Vatican II says. They want to know: "Where is that in the Bible?"

The doctrine of original sin is that "in" Adam all have sinned. This parallels the doctrine of justification that "in" Christ all are righteous. Many Catholics do not fully understand or appreciate the importance of this parallel and how it weaves through much of Catholic teaching.

We can begin to understand this parallel—namely, through the first Adam all have died and through the second Adam (Christ) all have life—by looking at Romans 5. Verse 12 says that "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin." And look at the evidence throughout verses 15–19: "Many died through one man’s trespass. . . . For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation. . . . Because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man. . . . Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men. . . . By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners."

Look at verse 16: "For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation." Who did it bring condemnation for? Adam only? No—verse 18 says, "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men" (emphasis added). This is stated even more clearly by the King James rendering the same verse: "Therefore, as by the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation."

These passages are all about the Church’s doctrine of original sin. Because of Adam’s sin, all men were made subject to sin and death. That is Scripture’s teaching on the doctrine of original sin.

This sin of Adam’s was not your ordinary sin. This was a sin that affected all mankind forever. This sin changed the course of human history. It did not just affect Adam personally; it also affected his human nature—which means it affected our nature, since we inherited it from him. Adam and Eve were created with immortal bodies. They knew no suffering, they knew no disease, they knew no death. Before the fall, their bodies would not have been subject to cancer or to Alzheimer’s disease or heart attacks or muscular dystrophy or sickle cell anemia or any one of a host of other diseases. But ours are.

Adam was tested by God not just as Adam but as the representative of the whole human race, since we are all the seed of Adam. Just as David and Goliath met on the battlefield as champions of their respective armies, Adam was our champion. If your champion lost in battle to the other army’s champion, then you lost the battle—even though you never unsheathed your sword and were never bloodied in battle. David slew the Philistines’ champion and the Philistines took off running (cf. 1 Sam. 17:51). In the battle against the evil one, Adam lost. As a result, we also lost.

Some folks have a problem with the concept that we, Adam’s posterity, should have to pay a price for a sin we didn’t commit. They do not understand how the Church is using the term original sin. As the Catechism says, "original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’—a state and not an act" (CCC 404).

Adam’s sin changed everything—for him and for us. There was a fundamental change in man’s relationship with God. God no longer walked the earth with man. What’s more, Satan was now ruler of the world. There was a fundamental change in the relationship of man to nature and a fundamental change in nature itself (cf. Rom. 8:19–22). A fundamental change in the relationship between man and woman. A fundamental change in relationships among all men, since sin and death had entered the world. A fundamental change in the nature of man himself. It’s all right there in the Bible. And it is the Church’s teaching on the doctrine of original sin.

But for each of those verses in Romans 5 about how Adam’s disobedience affected us, there is a parallel verse describing how Jesus’ obedience affected us. This parallel is paramount. One man’s disobedience leads to death for all; one man’s obedience leads to life for all. We see this parallel in 1 Corinthians 15:21–22: "For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

Let’s expand for a minute on this concept of being "in" Adam. The writer of Hebrews says something interesting in referring to when Abraham and Melchizedek met in Genesis 14: "Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham. For he was still in the loins of his ancestor [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him [Abraham]" (Heb. 7:9–10).

Levi wasn’t born for another seventy years or so after this incident of Abraham paying a tithe to Melchizedek, yet the Bible says that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek. How is that possible? Because Levi was in Abraham—in his loins, according to the Bible.

This is the same concept we are talking about with original sin and being in Adam and with salvation and being in Christ.

We are born with a fallen nature, a nature that is separated from God as a result of Adam’s sin. We have to be born again to become joined to God, to be in Christ, to become a member of the body of Christ, to be saved. We are born of Adam’s body into condemnation. We are born of Christ’s body unto salvation.

Finally, we reach the part where this ties into infant baptism. In the Gospel of John, Jesus says, "Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). In verse 5 he repeats himself: "Unless one is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

In other words, being born again is the same thing as being born of water and the Spirit, and it is a necessary condition for entering the kingdom of God. Jesus is saying that a man must be born of water and the Spirit—in other words, he must be baptized. The Bible tells us that you cannot enter the kingdom of God if you are not baptized.

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6). Remember that: The Bible says that which is born of the flesh is flesh. Not only that, but "it is the Spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail" (John 6:63).

Now, when a child is born, it is born into the flesh. But the Bible tells us that the flesh is of no avail because of the consequences of original sin. That’s why Jesus says we have to be born again. The first birth is birth of the flesh, but we need something more in order to have life.

What is that something more? The Bible tells us: Everyone must be born of the Spirit in order to have eternal life; it is the Spirit that gives life, not the flesh. And how do we receive the Spirit? The Bible tells us that we receive the Spirit by being born again—by being born of water and the Spirit—by being baptized. We find this in Ezekiel 36:25–27, John 3:3–5, Acts 2:38, and elsewhere. When we are baptized we put on Christ (cf. Gal. 3:27). We are buried with him in baptism (Rom. 6:4). We become members of the body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13). We receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). We become a new creation in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17).

To sum up these last few paragraphs: Adam is the representative of the flesh. Christ is the representative of the Spirit. When we are born physically, born into the flesh, we are in Adam. When we are baptized—when we are born again, when we are born of the Spirit—we are in Christ. Infants need to be baptized, just like anyone else, so that they can be "in Christ," so that they can put on Christ, so that they can become children of God, so that they can become members of the body of Christ, so that they can be granted eternal life.

One other Scripture passage that I like to use when discussing original sin is found in Ephesians 2:3: "Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind." We see here another very clear reflection of Catholic teaching in the Bible. Ephesians 2:3 is, in a nutshell, the Catholic teaching on original sin: We were by nature children of wrath. That’s what the Catholic Church teaches.

So can I give you a Bible verse on infant baptism? Yes, if you remember two things:

1. We are by nature children of wrath. Original sin is real. It is not something the Catholic Church invented. We are born of the flesh, not of the Spirit. We are not born in a state of holiness. We are born in a state of original sin.

2. Through baptism we are "born again" and made new creatures in Christ; through baptism our sins are forgiven. Through baptism we become members of the body of Christ, which is the Church. Through baptism we receive the Holy Spirit; through baptism we are saved. Baptism is necessary for salvation.

The washing away of original sin is a good and necessary thing. The joining of the infant to the body of Christ, the Church, is a good and necessary thing. The infant receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a good and necessary thing. The infant receiving the free gift of God’s salvation is a good and necessary thing.

It’s that simple. As Catholics, we want all these things for our children, not just for adults. Why would anyone want to deny infants and children the incredible gifts received through baptism? As the Bible tells us, the promise is to you and your children (cf. Acts 2:39). When you explain infant baptism in the context of original sin and sacramental baptism—of being born into a state of original sin and being born again into a state of grace—you make a very powerful argument on behalf of the Church’s teachings in this area. And you do it straight from the Bible.

Infant Baptism
Jn 3:5; Mk 16:16 - baptism required for entering heaven
1Cor 15:21-22 - in Adam all die, in Christ all made alive
Mk 10:14 - let children come; to such belongs the kingdom
Lk 18:15 - people were bringing even infants to him...
Col 2:11-12 - baptism has replaced circumcision
Jos 24:15 - as for me and my house, we will serve Lord
Mt 8:5ff. - daughter healed because of centurion's faith
Mt 15:21ff. - daughter healed because of Canaanite woman's faith
Lk 7:1ff. - just say the word, and let my servant be healed
Acts 16:31 - believe in Lord Jesus you & house will be saved
Acts 16:15 - she was baptized, with all her household
Acts 16:33 - he and all his family were baptized at once
1Cor 1:16 - I baptized the household of Stephanas

[Messenger]

Let's look at your Scriptural references here:

Infant Baptism
Jn 3:5; Mk 16:16 - baptism required for entering heaven
1Cor 15:21-22 - in Adam all die, in Christ all made alive
Mk 10:14 - let children come; to such belongs the kingdom
Lk 18:15 - people were bringing even infants to him...
Col 2:11-12 - baptism has replaced circumcision
Jos 24:15 - as for me and my house, we will serve Lord
Mt 8:5ff. - daughter healed because of centurion's faith
Mt 15:21ff. - daughter healed because of Canaanite woman's faith
Lk 7:1ff. - just say the word, and let my servant be healed
Acts 16:31 - believe in Lord Jesus you & house will be saved
Acts 16:15 - she was baptized, with all her household
Acts 16:33 - he and all his family were baptized at once
1Cor 1:16 - I baptized the household of Stephanas

John 3:5-Catholics never bother to read things in Context of what Scriptures says.

If you are gong to read that WHOLE passage about being born again, you have to include verses 6 & 7 as well:

John 3:6-7
New International Version (NIV)
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

Note verse 6.

Flesh gives birth to flesh. What happens to a woman before she gives birth? Her WATER breaks. That is of the flesh. The water mentioned here is of a woman's water breaking-NOT baptism. That which is of the flesh is NOT Spiritual.

No, baptism is NOT required to enter Heaven-Jesus is, as seen here:

John 14:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Jesus never mentions baptism here.

as to all the rest of your verses:

Mk 10:14 - let children come; to such belongs the kingdom-NO mention of Baptism. Read the full chapter

Lk 18:15 - people were bringing even infants to him-NO mention of Baptism. Read the full chapter

Jos 24:15 - as for me and my house, we will serve Lord. Prove there were children in the house. You can't.

Mt 8:5ff. - daughter healed because of centurion's faith-NO mention of baptism. Read the full chapter.

Mt 15:21ff. - daughter healed because of Canaanite woman's faith-NO mention of baptism. Read the full chapter.

Lk 7:1ff. - just say the word, and let my servant be healed. NO mention of Baptism. Read the full chapter


And as to these:



Acts 16:31 - believe in Lord Jesus you & house will be saved
Acts 16:15 - she was baptized, with all her household
Acts 16:33 - he and all his family were baptized at once
1Cor 1:16 - I baptized the household of Stephanas

When you can PROVE there were infants in the house you will have a case. You can't, so you have no case.

And here is something else to think about:

What was the message of John the Baptist-Repent & be baptised. How can a baby "repent of anything-it's a BABY!

What was Jesus message? Repent, believe, follow. How can a baby Repent of anything? How can a baby Believe anything? How can a baby follow anything? IT's a BABY! It can't do any of these!

What was the message of the apostles?

Repent & be baptised.

How can a baby repent of anything? IT'S....A........BABY!

What was the one message for coming to God? REPENT. FOLLOW. BELIEVE. Just how can an infant do ANY of these things. They can't!

And here is something else to think about:

The message of the Apostles was repent & be baptised. What do you think the Apostles would have been if they "HAD" baptised any infants?

HYPOCRITES!!!! They would have been going against the very teachings of what they were preaching! Do you honestly think that the "supposed" church that you believe Christ "founded", (the catholic church), was founded on lies & hypocrisy? This is the "TRUE" church?? Yeah right!

The message of the New Testament of Christ Jesus himself, is REPENT. BELIEVE. FOLLOW.

NOT be baptised & repent!

NOT be baptised & believe!

NOT be baptised & follow.

An infant CAN'T DO THESE!

There is NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for infant baptism!